EA: You are the author of several books: Marilyn (Assouline, 2003); Marlene Dietrich: Photographs and Memories (Thames & Hudson Ltd, 2001); and Icons of the 20th Century: 200 Men and Women Who Have Made a Difference (Overlook, 1998). What inspired you to interview Marilyn Monroe's most trusted photographers - including Henri Cartier-Bresson, Andre de Dienes, Cecil Beaton, Richard Avedon and Milton Greene - about what it was like to photograph this legend?JJN: The “
Marilyn” was quite exciting. I had just finished a special issue of American PHOTO where I spent two months all around the United States to find all these old guys who photographed Marilyn; Ossie Leviness, George Barris and all of them were in fact still in love with her. The one I remember the most was André De Dienes who showed me his diary and especially the page where he talks about his sexual relationship with Marilyn. That was so surreal to see this very very old guy being the lover of Marilyn Monroe.
Probably one of my best memories is when I discovered that all the Milton Greene pictures had at this time been bought by this kind of strange Greek guy with the complicity of the last Milton mistress; and everything was deeply hidden in storage in Pasadena. So I went there for Match to meet the guy. He called me at the Chateau Marmont and he said, “You have to find a way to come to Pasadena. Let’s meet in a bar.” So I went to the bar and he said, “Are you sure you aren’t followed?” I said, “Of course.” I arrived in the storage and discovered thousands of vintage prints by Milton Greene and probably all the dresses and all the personal objects of Marilyn. Later, Joshua Greene and the family sued the guy and they recuperated everything.
EA: In "Marlene Dietrich: Photographs and Memories" there were almost 300 photographs from her collection. How did you get involved?JJN: The beautiful souvenir I have of the Marlene Dietrich book - I’m quite friendly with Peter Riva, the son of Marlene Dietrich’s daughter Maria Riva, the grandson of Marlene. Peter called me and said, “Jean-Jacques, are you interested in spending one week in Berlin, the east part of Berlin (this was after ’89) and you will select in the archives of Marlene what you want for a book?” I spent one week, probably 18 hours a day, looking at all the personal archives of Marlene.
The thing I must confess, if the work of looking through archives, digging for pictures was very well paid, I would have preferred to look for pictures, than to publish pictures.
EA: You created a list for American PHOTO of over 30 photographers that had not received recognition or had been underrated. Would you describe that era of Photography?JJN: I’m always fascinated by how quick some great great photographers disappear. More and more frequently the disappearance is quick now. Almost everyone forgot about people like Chris von Wangenheim, Bill King, and Mike Reinhardt (grandson of the famous film Director Max Reinhardt). Plus all these very famous French guys from the ‘70’s who were the Kings of Fashion: Alex Chatelain, Pierre Houles, Guy Le Baube. Who knows about all these guys?
That is the one thing I’m trying to restore with
L’Oeill, is to bring together these two worlds of photography; the world of the dinosaur like you and me - people who are passionate and have the knowledge and the culture of photography - and the world of these millions and millions of young kids addicted to photography through Flickr, Instagram and Facebook, but maybe lacking the background, the culture and the knowledge.
Jean-Jacques with Grandchildren, Chloe and Julien
EA: You’ve written a few controversial pieces now and then.JJN: It’s not really controversy. But one thing I have noticed, in fact I made an issue of American PHOTO about; that the’70’s and 80’s were far more permissive than today. Being
"politically correct" at this present time is absolutely boring. For someone who loves New York as I do, to see New York so totally sanitized - the meat market looking like Avenue Montaigne in Paris - it’s boring. If I can dare to say it, I miss the transvestites, I miss the prostitutes, I miss the peep shows in Times Sq. I remember when Jean-Paul Goode met Grace Jones. Grace was absolutely fascinated by all the Times Sq. shops. One night we went from peep show to peep show because Grace wanted to make a private thing for Jean-Paul.
EA: What pieces were of notable success for you in the past?JJN: I’m particularly proud of a couple of things. Avedon’s Interview’s were quite strong. Avedon was not really fond of French PHOTO and same for Penn. They found it was a girly magazine. The magazine was important enough so they wanted to be in it in a way, so each time I wanted to have a portfolio, he would say, “Yes, but who is going to do the text?” So I would suggest a couple of names. Each time he said, “No, no. Naudet, if you want my portfolio, I want Roland Barthes.” And because of Richard Avedon I became quite friends with Roland Barthes. Three times I call Barthes and say, “Avedon is giving us a huge gorgeous portfolio, but you have to write the text.” So we used to meet with Barthes at his favorite place at the bar of the Hotel Port-Royal.
The fourth time, Avedon was publishing the fashion book (
AVEDON: Photographs 1947-1977. Farrar, Straus, Giroux). I called Barthes and said, “Roland, I have a new Avedon portfolio,” and the day after I received a beautiful note from Roland Barthes. He said, “Dear Naudet, I received the book. The book is gorgeous. Avedon is gorgeous, as usual. This book is full of women and you know women are not my cup of tea.”
Then around ‘95, Roger called me one night. “Jean Jacques, Catherine Deneuve has been elected the most gorgeous French woman. Call Avedon and ask him about the pictures of Catherine because he photographed her like no one? We need this picture. “ I said, “Remember Roger, our relationship with Avedon is not so good. Last time with MATCH they didn’t respect the contract.” He said, “Don’t worry, don’t worry Jean-Jacques, this time we are going to respect.”
So I called Avedon, it was probably 8pm. At 7AM, Avedon called and said, “Come to the Studio, I have something for you.” He gave me four spreads, eight pages he designed himself, plus the cover with his written indication “Avedon as big as Deneuve.” Of course, Roger did not respect the contract and of course he changed the layout. Avedon was absolutely furious.
Six months later arrived one of the most important fashion pieces that I have seen in the History of Fashion in the New Yorker, 32 pages of incredible pictures. Roger called and said, “Jean-Jacques, we need to publish these pictures in MATCH.” I say, “Roger, don’t forget last time. Avedon is not going to forgive you.“ He said, “I don’t care. Try.”
I called Avedon, and it was great. He said, “Ah, Roger is interested. If MATCH publishes these 32 pictures, it’s free. If MATCH publishes 24 pages, it’s $30,000. If they publish 16 pages, it’s $40,000. If Match publishes 8 pages, it’s $50,000.” MATCH was not able to publish 32 pictures. They published 8 pages and they paid $50,000. That was his sweet revenge.
And in terms of things that I published and I wouldn’t have published – I’m not going to answer to that. Probably a lot.
EA: In 2010, you started the very successful "Le Journal de la Photographie." Did you imagine Le Journal would be so well received with so many followers?JJN: No. No. I was deeply surprised. Of course I was proud. People say behind a success you always have a concept. That’s true, but that’s not so true. Behind a success you always have a team and that’s the most important.
EA: What was your original intent and what happened with Le Journal?JJN: As you know, I worked for the same company for almost forty years. In 2009, Hachette Filipacchi was sold to Hearst. I was too young to retire or too passionate to retire. I really wanted to continue in photography because it’s the only thing I know. I was totally fascinated by this new technology, this new form of expression, so I had this idea to make a daily publication talking about of all the things that were going on in photography all around the world. I was lucky enough to find a capitalist business angel who was extremely successful at this time, who didn’t ask anything and didn’t want a business model, just the opportunity to have this Journal.
But after two years, his business had quite difficult financial problems and, what can I say, he was less and less an angel. Things started to be extremely complicated especially because he never explained, never talked, payments were late; you know because you were there during this time. One day as an excuse he told me that the team was not good, I was not very good, we have to rethink about everything.
You can do what you want, but you never never accuse the people who are working with you. The following day I skyped with all the team. I said, “I’ve made my decision. I’m going to quit. I’m going to announce it Friday August 30. They all told me, “OK, we will do the same, we stay with you.”
EA: And in November 2013 you began your new publication, "L'Oeil de la Photographie." 34 of the original 36 Le Journal correspondents followed with you.
JJN: The thing I’m really proud of is the team now working, writing and collaborating. All of these 34 people coming from all different places, young and old, male and female, from all over the world, each of them different.
EA: You’ve always been ahead of many in understanding the value of using the latest technology.
JJN: Elizabeth, I’m a fraud. I don’t know anything about new technology. I just realized a couple of facts. Photography has never been as fashionable as now. Photography now has replaced the verb in communication. In fact photography IS the communication now.
When all these kids during editorial meetings talk about the technology, they are charming when they explain, but after 2 minutes I’m outside smoking a cigarette because I don’t understand one word. You will see during the next ten days,
L’Oeil de la Photographie is reopening the archive, but I don’t understand when they explain how they do this. When you have a team, you have to delegate this kind of thing and you have to trust them.
As I said, success is not only a concept, success is always a team.
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